Curse

DABhand · Feb 18, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

let me tell you why people scam:
because they are either too immature to have learned right from wrong, or know and just don't give a crap about other people.
it really has nothing to do w/farmers.

Not entirely, no... But People are like that, they will steal because either they cant do it themselves, or they are jealous of people who have the items, so they scam newer people and sell their scams for profit to get the items they want. Then go about saying "I got Bulwarks from Tombs" when in matter of fact they bought it..

eom · Feb 18, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

scammer update:

ok, so after probably hundreds of trades, I have only had a couple people try to scam me, one of which just happened to be yesterday.
I had pretty much just ignored it, but remembered reading in these scam threads that somebody had turned a scammer in to their guild leader, so I thought I'd try that, and it seems as though the guild leader was pretty upset about it.

just wanted to dredge this up as I think it's a good idea --- congrats to whoever posted it.

shevaa · Feb 18, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Scammers is one of the main reasons my husband and I stopped playing Diablo 2 and almost didn't even try guildwars. Back when we only had one computer and we shared a d2 account we both worked for everything we had. All of our characters had what was considered the best items in the game for that class as well as a few the next most wanted items. Our stashs were full and our inventory was almost full (we learned the hard way to make sure you have room...I hated that people could make your body "pop"). Anyway when the trade hack stuff first started to get really bad my hubby was playing and had just gotten another vamp gaze (for those who never played that was one of the most wanted helms in the game) so he decided to sell it. Opened trade with someone and next thing he knows...he watches everything on his char and in his inventory fly off him to the ground then the game exited and his comp restarted...a year of hard work gone in less then a minute...needless to say he was very mad. We got it all back the same way as before...the honest way. but the scams became the most overwhelming element of d2 and took all the fun out of it. It got so bad and we got so tired of it that one day we called a good friend of ours and said heres the two account names and the passwords...have fun (that was after I got my comp and my own account). Because of how bad it was in d2 we were weary of trying guildwars.

DJ Josh · Feb 18, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

i think some ppl on this forum (including not only members) are right in there view of tough luck.and guess why because a.net seems to have that same view so they must be right.i was scammed not long after the game started with the now informus g instead of p scam and sent a report to a.net with screens and that scammer never received the ban we are led to think they get for scamming.i know this because i had there name on my friends list until a few months ago.i was lucky though in that some how a fellow guildie managed to get the item back for me.

also i would like to ask why ppl are not allowed to name and shame scammers on the forums?.surely any 1 that falls for a scam should be allowed to warn others so as to protect more ppl from falling for the same scams from that person rather than protecting the scammers identity.

but a little advice anyway,just as in real life never trust any 1 until that trust is earned,don't ever give anything away unless you meen to give it freely and watch your trades very closely.a couple of things i always do in respect to trades is carefully check the the trade box to see the cash/item is correct then accept and hover over the cancel button if the person hits modify press cancel and go look for some 1 else.sometimes they will say they hit the wrong button by mistake(and sometimes they will be telling the truth) but just reply with learn to be more carefull then as that is a scam tactic.

Loviatar · Feb 18, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Josh

i think some ppl on this forum (including not only members) are right in there view of tough luck.and guess why because a.net seems to have that same view so they must be right.i was scammed not long after the game started with the now informus g instead of p scam and sent a report to a.net with screens and that scammer never received the ban we are led to think they get for scamming.i know this because i had there name on my friends list until a few months ago.i was lucky though in that some how a fellow guildie managed to get the item back for me.

also i would like to ask why ppl are not allowed to name and shame scammers on the forums?.surely any 1 that falls for a scam should be allowed to warn others so as to protect more ppl from falling for the same scams from that person rather than protecting the scammers identity.

.

hi

first point answer is that it might have been a temp ban of 24 hours to a week which would not have any effect on what your friends list shows.

THIS IS A TEST OF THE FALSE ACCUSATION SYSTEM.......THIS IS JUST A TEST

DJ Josh just scammed me out of the lucky gold piece i let him look at and i have the genuine fabricated screenies to prove it.

END OF TEST

that is why this site does not allow the guilty to be named as someone with a grudge could smear an innocent person

eom · Feb 18, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I am reporting dj josh to anet.

that sonofabitch.

lord_shar · Feb 18, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

Scamming is far different from taking, and scamming is just a unfair trade, not taking. You just have to becareful about unfair trades, and if you do get scammed, in truth, the only person you can blame is yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

I don't scam, but i don't think scamming is stealing. It's just the ignorance of the person being scammed. Life isn't all fair where everybody is happy. Do you think this kind of stuff doesn't go on around in the real world?

PS::I dont scam, just giving my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickett

I don't necessarily think it is stealing either, but that doesnt make it right. I've not been scammed, but I am careful. Not everyone is. I am not jealous of the people who have tons of gold, I'm doing ok, I am having fun, so what if i only have around 850g. no worries, that doesnt make me want to scam folks for their gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDS

I have, many many many times.

If YOU are not attentive to the TRADE WINDOW, WHERE YOU SHOULD BE, it is YOUR fault, YOUR responsibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Josh

i think some ppl on this forum (including not only members) are right in there view of tough luck.and guess why because a.net seems to have that same view so they must be right.
...<SNIP>...

Like it or not, scamming IS stealing, since the buyer/victim is paying a fixed amount of virtual money for promised goods that are never delivered. This is recognized as both fraud and theft by modern laws in the civilized world. Make sure you keep this in mind if you try anything similar whether in game or real life.

I am simply dumbfounded by the amount of people here who don't acknowlege, recognize, or comprehend the fact that scamming is stealing. There are pretty basic dots to connect. Have our social standards really degenerated this badly?

DJ Josh · Feb 18, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

I am reporting dj josh to anet.

that sonofabitch.

lol.

@loviatar,good point i never looked past the view of some 1 who had been scammed for real but i see your point now of false claims.so i suppose the only line of defence is to check these forums for any new scams that are out and always be carefull when trading.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Like it or not, scamming IS stealing, since the buyer/victim is paying a fixed amount of virtual money for promised goods that are never delivered. This is recognized as both fraud and theft by modern laws in the civilized world. Make sure you keep this in mind if you try anything similar whether in game or real life.

I am simply dumbfounded by the amount of people here who don't acknowlege, recognize, or comprehend the fact that scamming is stealing. There are pretty basic dots to connect. Have our social standards really degenerated this badly?

1) "Buying black dye for cheap exploits"

If I walk into CompUSA today, and see the latest Mac laptop on their aisles with the price tag $19.99 (instead of $1999), and so I grabbed two shopping cart, loaded them up to the brim, and meanwhile advanced towards the checkout line while busily calling my wife to get her to order me a truck to CompUSA. I made away with $300,000 worth of laptops purchased at only $20 each, whose fault is it?

Btw in such a scenario CompUSA has ZERO case against me, that is NOT scamming.

2) "g vs k exploit"

So let's reuse the same example above, so the cashier keyed in the price of the laptop, and asked me for $1999, so I presented 20 $1 notes to her, and she mistakenly accepted it as a 20 $100 notes, issued me a receipt, and gave me $1 change.

Sorry to say bud, but in this case it is STILL the clerk's fault, and yes, come the end of her shift the manager will skin her alive... well, not really, she just have to pay it back. So it's the scammer's fault, but so what? Does it mean she has zero responsibility from it? No.

Loviatar · Feb 18, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

If I walk into CompUSA today, and see the latest Mac laptop on their aisles with the price tag $19.99 (instead of $1999), and so I grabbed two shopping cart, loaded them up to the brim, and meanwhile advanced towards the checkout line while busily calling my wife to get her to order me a truck to CompUSA. I made away with $300,000 worth of laptops purchased at only $20 each, whose fault is it?

Btw in such a scenario CompUSA has ZERO case against me, that is NOT scamming.

.

it wouldnt be a scam because you wouldnt get out the door with a single one of those without paying full price plus tax.

they do have those nifty little signs around in store/ads/etc that say something on the order of

*NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MISPRINTS,TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS OR ANYTHING ELSE OF THIS NATURE*

try to sue to enforce that price and you will be out the cost of your attorney (if you could find one) plus the stores legal expences

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

it wouldnt be a scam because you wouldnt get out the door with a single one of those without paying full price plus tax.

they do have those nifty little signs around in store/ads/etc that say something on the order of

*NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MISPRINTS,TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS OR ANYTHING ELSE OF THIS NATURE*

try to sue to enforce that price and you will be out the cost of your attorney (if you could find one) plus the stores legal expences

Ah huh, that is provided they actually detect it before I make it out of the store, and seeing as to how their clerks are paid bottom dollar and made to work flat out, I can see good odds of that not happening.

Besides the moment the sale is concluded they can kiss goodbye to their nice non binding signs, doctrine of first sale, exhaustion of rights, muah! Sorry, I might have agreed to it, but the sale is binding once it is concluded.

Finally, I don't know about you, but stores around here actually have a "scanning code of practice", if scanned price is higher than listed, I get a full refund of the difference plus another one of the same item free! Woohoo!

Kook~NBK~ · Feb 18, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

1) "Buying black dye for cheap exploits"

If I walk into CompUSA today, and see the latest Mac laptop on their aisles with the price tag $19.99 (instead of $1999), and so I grabbed two shopping cart, loaded them up to the brim, and meanwhile advanced towards the checkout line while busily calling my wife to get her to order me a truck to CompUSA. I made away with $300,000 worth of laptops purchased at only $20 each, whose fault is it?

Btw in such a scenario CompUSA has ZERO case against me, that is NOT scamming.

2) "g vs k exploit"

So let's reuse the same example above, so the cashier keyed in the price of the laptop, and asked me for $1999, so I presented 20 $1 notes to her, and she mistakenly accepted it as a 20 $100 notes, issued me a receipt, and gave me $1 change.

Sorry to say bud, but in this case it is STILL the clerk's fault, and yes, come the end of her shift the manager will skin her alive... well, not really, she just have to pay it back. So it's the scammer's fault, but so what? Does it mean she has zero responsibility from it? No.

1) -It's scamming & they'd have every right to not allow you to pay $20 for a $2,000 item. Besides, who's to say that YOU or a buddy of yours didn't go in earlier and switched the tags around?

2) That's not likely to happen now, is it? (Store managers have a way to keep people that dumb from working for them - it's called the interview process.)

The bottom line is: Scammers shouldn't be trying to get away with it in the first place. But since they think they can (often rightly, dagnabit), they'll keep trying. And if A-Net cracks down on the scammer, good!

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Anyway to those of you who keep insisting that the "victim" is absolutely blameless, let's just take a typical item sale in GW and expand upon it.

So traditionally, someone farms for an item, finds a buyer, and sells it.

Now what happens is player X farms for an item, signs a contract with player Y where player Y is to sell the item at a reasonable market value, take 10% of the sale price as commission, and hand the rest back to player X.

So player Y happily goes on his way, saw someone advertising in town "Me buy Victo's axe, 60K!" and quickly run forward to open trade with him (jesus, those axes barely sell for 30K today, 60 is a steal!) sees the number "60" and quickly presses accept in his frenzy.

Only when the words "You've traded Victo's Battle axe for 60 gold" comes out did the truth suddenly dwell on player Y.

Player Y hurled some insults at the buyer only to hear a "kthxbai, me no speek inglish" before being added to his ignore list.

So player Y goes back to player X with 60g.

Player X points to the contract and sues player Y for the 30K guild wars gold that is the preagreed as per reasonable market rate (which is probably $2, not even worth a lawyer's fee, but let's suppose)

So you think player Y is so blameless? Well, sorry, under the law you can be charged for negligence.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

1) -It's scamming & they'd have every right to not allow you to pay $20 for a $2,000 item. Besides, who's to say that YOU or a buddy of yours didn't go in earlier and switched the tags around?

Maybe I should further stress that not only are the tags watermarked and digitally printed, but it turns on that the error originated when some data entry clerk entered the price as $19.99 in the system.

Meaning: this error is no different from some newbie advertising black dye for 3K in post sear ascalon, and happily accepting the trade with no questions asked. Now eom can say how that's being a dick or "scamming", but I really want to see him turn down a $2000 laptop sold at $20 with no strings attached. Sorry, that's just me, but I flat out refuse to believe it.

olydog · Feb 18, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

OK..Blah Blah Blah..yaddy yaddy... Just put it plain and simple...samming is stealing..stealing is wrong...simple as that...BAN the scammers..since they obviusly have no morals.

Stop all the long winded pyscho babble...SCAMMERS ARE SCUM!!!

Uzul · Feb 18, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

scammer update:

ok, so after probably hundreds of trades, I have only had a couple people try to scam me, one of which just happened to be yesterday.
I had pretty much just ignored it, but remembered reading in these scam threads that somebody had turned a scammer in to their guild leader, so I thought I'd try that, and it seems as though the guild leader was pretty upset about it.

just wanted to dredge this up as I think it's a good idea --- congrats to whoever posted it.

that was me

i also have an update on the guy that we "converted" - we have confirmation that he gave the money back to 3 other people and apologized to several others for trying to scam them - success on the whole line ^^

there can be a good ending if people still treat each other in a human way - and if you push the right buttons X_x

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by olydog

OK..Blah Blah Blah..yaddy yaddy... Just put it plain and simple...samming is stealing..stealing is wrong...simple as that...BAN the scammers..since they obviusly have no morals.

Stop all the long winded pyscho babble...SCAMMERS ARE SCUM!!!

How can you prove someone is a scammer?

The seller might have made a mistake, who is to say that the buyer didn't make a mistake too?

And no, sorry, the buyer is under no obligation to make up for your mistake as his expense once the deal is consummated.

lord_shar · Feb 19, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

1) "Buying black dye for cheap exploits"

If I walk into CompUSA today, and see the latest Mac laptop on their aisles with the price tag $19.99 (instead of $1999), and so I grabbed two shopping cart, loaded them up to the brim, and meanwhile advanced towards the checkout line while busily calling my wife to get her to order me a truck to CompUSA. I made away with $300,000 worth of laptops purchased at only $20 each, whose fault is it?

Btw in such a scenario CompUSA has ZERO case against me, that is NOT scamming.

2) "g vs k exploit"

So let's reuse the same example above, so the cashier keyed in the price of the laptop, and asked me for $1999, so I presented 20 $1 notes to her, and she mistakenly accepted it as a 20 $100 notes, issued me a receipt, and gave me $1 change.

Sorry to say bud, but in this case it is STILL the clerk's fault, and yes, come the end of her shift the manager will skin her alive... well, not really, she just have to pay it back. So it's the scammer's fault, but so what? Does it mean she has zero responsibility from it? No.

Retailers have posted disclaimers against mis-tagged items anyway, especially when the SKU# doesn't match the item price tag. You don't have a prayer in court if you tried to push this example. There are also laws against practices such as bait-and-switch, but that's a separate matter. For #2 above, if the cashier's register doens't balance at the end of the day, it's her job on the line.

Repeat: "Stories are for Mother Goose." Once again, please state the relevant facts, not an allegory mentioning the color of the sky, the clothes you love wearing, etc... At least make some effort to be remotely convincing.

generik · Feb 19, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Retailers have posted disclaimers against mis-tagged items anyway, especially when the SKU# doesn't match the item price tag. You don't have a prayer in court if you tried to push this example. There are also laws against practices such as bait-and-switch, but that's a separate matter.

Repeat: "Stories are for Mother Goose." Once again, please state the relevant facts, not an allegory mentioning the color of the sky, the clothes you love wearing, etc...

Read my other post, it is not mistagged. The n00b CompUSA in this example clearly has a manager that goes "1+1=3", "look mummy, I'm a buzyness man" and "what's profit? I sell a 2000 laptop for $20". There is no mistake, it is advertised as it is, the same way a newbie in ascalon would try to sell black dye for $3000 when the dye trader right next to him would say it is worth twice that.

So you come along and exploit that.

Is that scamming?

And don't give me all that BS about courts and stuff, CompUSA won't have a prayer THEMSELVES if they fail to detect that error and let their customers walk home with $2000 laptops sold to them at $20. You seriously think any judge is going to subpeona these customers from some fussy video tape recording of the checkout counter? Try harder.

They can stop you at the counter, IT IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE SELLER IN GUILD WARS SAYING NO BEFORE PRESSING THE ACCEPT BUTTON. Get over it.

generik · Feb 19, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Of yes, and nevermind the fact that none of our armchair lawyers has anything to say about example b) too.. involving our dear poor sales clerk and her (possibly equally tired and disorientated) customer.